Just seems like from what I see online that men are not worried about disclosure too much. This makes sense to me because after doing the research 1/4 women have been exposed already and up to 90% aren't going to show symptoms to find out they have it. Seems like with those odds a man might as well keep quiet. For me I'm just having anxiety over what to say if someone comes back at me and accuses me of giving them h. "I don't have that shit!" I know a lot of this has to be happening, because I checked one of those h dating sites and it was NOT populated considering the 50 million amount of people (but again, 90% of those are walking around stress free).
Nope... we discussed the perceived absence of men on these sites here: (look for my answer about why there are so few guys on these sites)
Men ARE worried. And in our opinion here, no a man should NOT keep quiet .. not only because it's just the right thing to do, but women have a 10% chance of getting herpes from a man without protection/meds ... our risk is DOUBLE yours for getting it. And really ... do you want to be that guy who has a girl come up to you telling you she suddenly got these sores, and was swabbed and told she's having an initial OB which means she got it from you ... and she never was given the opportunity to CHOOSE to take that risk??? Because if you REALLY like her by that time, odds are you will be lucky if all she does is walk away gracefully.
As for the H dating sites... there's a lot of reasons why people don't go on them. For one thing, there would automatically only be about 1/5th as many potential folks going on there. Then you have the stigma ... and the feeling by many that it's like being in a leper colony ... and finally, those who are scared that someone will see their profile on there and they will be outed (I had a guy I know from my dance community contact me on one who also has H ... I'm completely out so I don't care but I could see how that might spook some people). I see H sites as an adjunct to my dating profiles ... but I refuse to stick to them alone.
Anyhow - read that other link ... and you may understand why guys are not as prevalent on these forums :)
I'm reading there's a 4% chance of transmission if having regular sex for an entire year w/ a condom. If it's transmitted, 90% won't show symptoms. If they are among the 60% with hsv1 they'll have some resistance. On top of that, the h can lay dormant for years. The chances of someone coming to you directly and saying you gave it to them are crazy low.
I read one link from Greenville and how he found himself a girlfriend after three dates. I'm on a break from my 5 year relationship and I'm pretty sure that will be my girl (who doesn't have h even though I suddenly got it in the middle of our relationship -- strange) and I'm more interested in cracking open tinder and finding some casual, no strings attached sex. I use condoms religiously (I'm positive I had on a condom when I had contracted this h because I only get sores in the pubic region not on my shaft).
I guess I don't understand the pressure of disclosure when no one disclosed to me and I can just fall back in the sea of 90% of people (estimated 45million) who are going about their lives not worrying about it.
I am going to make this short and sweet, I am a guy I have had 5 partners sense being diagnosed, I have disclosed to all of them, I have yet to be turned down, it's all in how you handle your self.. 3 of them where just casual hook ups,
I should note I'm a pretty average joe, I'm sorta introverted, pretty shy guy, and I'm no Fabio.
Well long term casual hookups
Interesting, I guess being confident goes a long way? Can you elaborate on what it is you say and how you deliver the message ?
Well, it's usually goes the way I was told by my friend. Look before this goes further I have to tell you something, I have herpes, I say what kind, I tell the story in short because I wasn't told, it was a surprise gift. I explain to them how most people don't know, and if you have had sex with more then 7 people you most likely have already been exposed, I tell them a little about it. I tell them my history like I have not had an outbreak sense my diagnosis. And I end it with how it's a skin condition. I let them know that it really doesn't effect my daily life I don't walk around thinking about it,...
It's all in how you live with it, herpes is what you make it mentally... We aren't talking aids or cancer or Ebola.
It's scarry every time to disclose but the more you do the better the delivery, practice...
@New_Name
You have said and done it perfectly! Disclosing and remaining confident in who you are is the key to moving forward in new relationships. You have proven and articulated that your life is just as good if not better after h and I share that same reality. Herpes is inconvenient but it's not a life sentence like most people feel when they are first diagnosed. Disclosures are really hard but they are worth the challenge...regardless of the outcome. H just makes you more responsible and that is never a bad thing. I have had it for over 15 years and have had the MOST amazing relationships inside the bedroom and out. @Koolkat you will experience many blow jobs in your lifetime if you are a good, honest man, those blow jobs will come from a woman who trusts and loves you instead of just a "hook up". Learn about the virus, be safe and conscientious then continue living your life!
First - going to post some links about Casual Sex discussions so you will realize it's very possible with Herpes:
Now: I'm going to give you a little Tough Love my friend:
Most of us who got Herpes got it from someone who didn't disclose - intentionally or otherwise. And I can tell you that this causes a LOT of emotional pain, anger, and anxiety for the newly diagnosed ... I spend HOURS on here every day trying to help people to navigate the feelings of loss of trust, bewilderment, and outrage when they first some on here. I *rarely* see posts from someone who got it after from disclosure on here and when I do, there is no anger ... the person tends to accept that they took the risk and while they may still deal with some upset, it's NOTHING like the majority of people who are unwittingly given the virus.
And the bottom line: There's a thing in life called Integrity. It means doing what is RIGHT even when it's difficult. There's another thing called "Treating people like you would want to be treated". Would you prefer to have been told by your giver before you engaged in sex? I bet the answer would be Yes. Perhaps you feel that you wouldn't have engaged with them if they told you ... well, that would have been your CHOICE. But you were not given the choice and now you are trying to make excuses and come up with all kinds of reasons why you might not need to disclose.
After 35 yrs with Herpes ... and spending countless hours coaching people who I've seen go from the initial upset and fear to having amazing relationships and yes, casual ones too ... I can tell you that Herpes can make these encounters/relationships BETTER. You will have more authentic encounters. Oh - and that drunk girl you mentioned? Why would you want to jump a gal who is too drunk to make a rational choice about having sex with you after disclosing? Because she's "easier"? Think about it ... one day you may have a daughter ... ;)
((HUGS)))
@fitgirl I agree that disclosure is probably the right way to go about things but I also see @Koolkat point. You shouldn't assume someone has the same moral threshold as you. Here are just the facts: herpes isn't terminal and it's technically not illegal to omit, though you may still be at risk for a civil suit. You could theoretically be taken to court for negligence or personal injury and if you lose, pay quite a lot in damages. I do, however, think this scenario is very rare as the effort, time, money, and loss of privacy involved in making a case that isn't a guaranteed success deters most people. Ultimately @Koolkat it's up to your conscious and a slight chance of litigation. I think it's wrong for you not to disclose and I don't recommend it. At the same time I recognize it's your life and there's little in terms of palpable consequences, especially if you're not an empathetic person. Also @fitgirl, "man up"? Come on now, I thought people were trying to get over sexist shit like that these days.
And a lot of women give you some major credit for telling them
But do they treat you different? Do they act fussy and want to give you a blowjob with a condom on and stuff like that?
Lol "fussy" I like that. just sex usually sex with a condom, I have had some of the best sex in my life with the h... The women I have had seemed to be more committed to me give me more respect throughout the relationship, and more open about what they want in the sack... I mean if your honest and let them know you wouldn't do anything with them if u had a O'B They tend to give the same respect back
So good ol fashioned blow jobs have been out of the question? I guess if you're talking to someone then disclosing is easiest, esp if you're going to see them for months on end because if something does happen it won't be as surprising.
No I meant they have not had a problem with giving me blowjobs
True, I know of relationships and even marriages that have been broken up due to not disclosing on purpose... Think about it what happens when u find your bombshell and u get married and u haven't told her, then one day she says hey my vagina is rotting off I need to go to the doctor... Well, she gets diagnosed and a she thinks you cheated on her, or it come out in the open and your a lier... Boom done... Relationship ruined.. Better to disclose.. Think of it as you have to.. Be very matter of fact let them do thier own research if they want too... Give them time to think about it... Amd play it cool in the mean time..
And you and I know the shock and all the emotion that goes on when u are first diagnosed, women are very emotional stock, in general...
Beside you never know they might say yeah I have it too
"Man up" "woman up" call it what you will.... the point is, step up to the plate regardless of gender. If you read my posts on this forum you will see.... I am a HUGE advocate of men and their plight. Bottom line.... we are all in the same boat regardless of gender. I know it's hard to be a man. I actually believe it's even harder these days to be "a man" than ever before. Regardless of gender we all have a responsibility to the people we are intimate with. I give the same advice to women, the LAST thing I am being is sexist. Just being a realist. Be careful not to project all challenges in your life onto herpes. We all have our challenges, we all have our issues. Herpes just separates the men from the boys and women from the girls. This isn't about gender, its about integrity.
Disclosing must be difficult if you're on vacation somewhere and trying to have sex with that drunk girl after the club. I'd imagine there's many people, male and female not disclosing. I'm not sure I could handle the anxiety of holding that secret anymore.
I'd imagine chicks are apprehensive about giving a blowjob w/o a condom when you start talking about genital herpes? I think I vascillate on disclosure because of the statistics I read and the breakdowns of the risks.
I previously posted on another thread about this. Many years ago, I had a boyfriend who tested positive for HSV2 (before I contracted it). He was honest and upfront, and it really didn't hinder our sex life. We sporadically used condoms, and he was not denied oral sex, by any stretch of the imagination. And we never used condoms for that. We later found out through a Western Blot test that his positive results for actually a false positive, but not until after we parted ways. If you are upfront, good things will come. And sure, the chances of passing it on are low . But as evidenced by the number of people with HSV, and the number of people here on this site, you can pass it on!
There may be hesitation for some women for sure but to be honest, I was never a chick that would blow a guy I wasn't in love with and in a monogamous relationship with anyway! I save the good stuff for the men that mean something to me :). Herpes had nothing to do with that decision, it was just a personal choice. The point is.... as much as hook ups can be fun, the novelty wears off and you are generally left without a meaningful relationship. Herpes just forces you to prioritize your sexual and emotional relationships in a new, more meaningful way.
@fitgirl I don't have any issue with promoting integrity, I think it's a fine quality to have. I'm just saying phrases like "man up" are outdated. It's a gender-specific phrase used to coerce one into agreeing with you by putting into question one's masculinity and playing on the insecurities associated with it. That was more a side thing and not a comment on the entirety of your post(s). Sorry you took it that way.
But since you brought it up, if anything you're being unrealistic. Morality is not a static concept and it differs between individuals. While there may be some universal maxims that the majority of the population follows there will always be outliers. I was just giving him the facts on the legal consequences in case the moral ones weren't as important to him.
Good points. No one disclosed to me so I figured there would be more support for non-disclosure in general since the h isn't that big of deal after the initial shock. As far as the "drunk girl" I meant that to describe the atmosphere I engage in and where sexual situations are likely, not that I intentionally target drunk women. I am a handsome guy who has always been highly successful with women and I'm really just trying to cope with the idea of all of the pussy that I am going to miss out on if I start walking around telling women I have h. Will check those links but if they're all from the female perspective I won't feel much better.
Hmmmmm seems like you might need to grow up a bit and realize that getting pussy isn't an accomplishment. I have always said (as a female) that "dicks are a dime a dozen". I can get dick easily, but guess what? A dick is a dick. And a pussy is a pussy. Big deal.... in a few years you will learn that life is so much more than getting laid and getting your dick sucked. And why would it not make you feel better if the links are from a female perspective? They are the ones with the pussies, you might learn something. Your luck with the ladies is based on your looks and charisma? That luck will run out quickly. Especially if all you focus on is getting head and hook up sex.
I didn't call it an accomplishment, but it is an activity and a part of life. I'm not interested in reading the female disclosure logs because it's a different ball game for a female to disclose to a male than a male to disclose to a female.
Yup its a part of life. Absolutely. But now herpes is part of your life too. Both can coexist but you have to respect the people you put at risk even if others didn't respect you. And the person you got it from may not have known she had it. You know you have it. Man up and let the ladies decide for themselves if you are worth the risk.
That's where I'm stuck is the "90% don't know they have it" statistic. Why don't the remaining 10% just "don't know they have it" too and go on business as usual? Seems much less stressful.
I totally get where you are coming from. We call it the "bargaining stage". I have been where you are (as have many of H+ people). We want to be one of the ones that "doesn't know". I have asked myself all these same questions and wished I was one of them... the reality is, we aren't one of them. We know. It sucks, yes. But it's not the worst thing that could happen. Your life isn't much different than it was before, it just has another layer. Trust me..... disclosure is the only way you will be able to look your handsome self in the mirror every day :)
Koolkat, you seem like you must be a young buck, and I was thier once. Generally herp aside, may I say, it's fun a lot of fun chasing the strange new girl here and There.. I'm older now and my chasing days are slimming down unfortunately I learned the art late in life... I'm pretty average like I said... I'm not going to be on the cover of an ambercrombi shopping bag anytime soon.... So, I figured out what worked for me.. And we'll now I'm old and all that young hot tail, well it's still young and hot and I'm old and kreepy now.... What I'm saying is I wish I had cooled my jets at an earlier age... I have let a lot of great excelent women go by...... And h has put that into a little more perspective for me....
And I get your concern about chasing tail every young Americans dream... And I say that because sorry gals my experience its equal on both sides when it comes to playing the field... We don't live in 1932 anymore.... If you sit back and really look at society its a giant fuck feet out there. Plenty of opportunity, but the day comes when your old and you have nobody because all you know is meaningless sex...
You can still chase and get laid, just make it more then a one night stand, and disclose you will end up with some good fb's...
I still played the field with h I always disclosed it might take a few days get to know them and warm them up to the idea of sleeping with you. And your self warmed up for the disclosure.... But always disclose.. Because when you do find the one you will have the practice under your belt...
The reason why the 10% who do know about their status don't go on like we don't know is because of that 10%. The others don't have symptoms. Then you have people like me who go from being energetic, healthy, and confident to rundown, uncomfortable, and confused. Everyday I have some physical and psychological reminder of this virus. And I know that at some point I'll get better. But right now I consistenly feel like crap and can't figure out how to explain it to the people around me. I know I'm responsible for my own sexual health, but I played by all the rules. And my partner didn't. At the end of the day it's your choice, but are you okay with taking that choice away from someone else?
One word. Integrity.
To me, my integrity is more important to me than anything else. I will accept a ton of shit from someone ... but if I find out you lied to me, my trust is broken and it will take a whole lot to get that back. Even a "small lie"... because I will wonder that if something "small" was too scary to tell me, what else are you hiding.
We've had women on here who have been in the situation where the guy said he didn't know ... and the woman found out that in fact he DID know (through various means) ... I can tell you that the emotional harm to them from that deception was FAR harder on them than the virus itself.
And again. Think. One day you will possibly have kids. You may have a daughter. How would you want a guy to treat her? I can tell you most men I know who have daughters would do a beat-down on any guy who KNOWINGLY passed herpes on to their daughter ...
Sure.... herpes itself isn't a "big deal" as far as diseases go to most people. Most don't have symptoms. Most who do get them under control within a reasonable time. A few struggle more and deal with ongoing post herpatic nerve pain and/or continual OB's ... but it won't kill us and it's mostly a nuisance. But the reality is that the EMOTIONAL toll that it has on people can be HUGE. I spend HOURS on here most days helping people to climb back up out of the deep pit of despair and depression that they have spun into after diagnosis. Many literally withdraw from their friends and life in general. Many go from outgoing to reclusive ... believing they are being "punished" for their previous sexual life. They suddenly see themselves as "dirty", sluts", "unlovable", "tainted", "gross". NONE of the people that take the diagnosis this hard were given the choice about taking the risk, and that plays heavily into their struggle. Many WOULD have taken the risk.....they really loved/cared for their giver ... even those in casual relationships ... but the feeling of betrayal on top of the diagnosis really screws with their psyche ... and they can take YEARS of therapy to get back to some semblance of their pre-diagnosis confidence....
We have given you our opinions here. I think it's pretty clear that our general stand is that it's the right thing to do to disclose, no matter what the circumstance. Just think very carefully before you go banging some girl who has no idea of your status .... what are YOU willing to live with if she gets Herpes from you??? Are you willing to be responsible for creating a situation where you get a call from a girl who is literally suicidal because of the stigma and the feelings of betrayal ... because that is a distinct possibility in your future. If you can live with yourself then we can't stop you. If you have so little regard for how your behavior may affect another's life in the long run, then you will do what you will do ... and *if* you are lucky, you won't pass it on. I just pray that you REALLY consider how your behavior and your need to avoid a conversation that may be uncomfortable (and result in you *possibly* not getting pussy) might affect someone else if this virus happens to find it's way into some future partner ... because you will have to live with that for the rest of your life ....
Peace out ....
Good insight badjuju. Those lawsuits seem to be pretty rare. I'm actually an attorney myself and it seems the common thread in the lawsuits is the infected woman had an admission from the man.
New_Name I'm sort of young... but a seasoned 30 yrs old.
The other responses are awfully judgmental considering I'm working out for myself having h. I might be teetering on being the handsome dick slinging non-discloser or the angelic upfront h-man, but that doesn't make me a bad person. I've gone through the depression, thoughts of suicide, feelings of sex being over, just like everyone else, prior to joining this forum. And I felt that way while I was in a relationship. Now that I'm separated from my gf temporarily I'm wondering if the h is keeping me with her or if I really do want her around. In short, I'm just talking and joined the forum to share my thoughts because I didn't want to discuss this with anyone in real life because of the stigma.
No judgement here ... just my POV (and I am known to dispense straight talk and tough love here because sometimes people just need someone who won't mince words with them... but it's not personal... it's just what *I* feel they need to hear/consider)...
You will do what you do and you will have to live with the consequences of your actions ...sadly, someone else may also have to live with those consequences too ... and given your admission of all the pain and suffering YOU went through, I just find it baffling that you would even begin to consider that it's ok to possibly put someone into that situation too ... because again, my observation is that those who get Herpes after being given the CHOICE are FAR less likely to be as negatively impacted than those who get it out of the blue, whether their "giver" knew they had it or not.
And sorry, but your languaging ... saying:
and
makes you *sound* like you are a horny, self involved jerk ... just being honest here about how your words come across in print .... However, I DO want to applaud you for coming here to discuss this though and THAT tells me that there is more to you than what your writing might lead people to believe ;)
One thing I can say for certain: if you came here to have people tell you that it's ok to not disclose, you are on the wrong forum. Our policy is that truth, honesty, vulnerablity, and integrity come first ... and our experience is that the people (both women AND men!) who take on our perspective often come back later to report that they have found a relationship that is far deeper and more meaningful than anything they have ever experienced... so we must be doing *something* right over here ;)
And if you want my psycho analysis of you Koolkat ..... (well I'm a woman, that was a rhetorical question because I am going to give it to you unsolicited) I think you are better man than you have portrayed here on this stream. I think you wish you had a good reason not to disclose and you want to get the "atta boy" pat on the back to justify the thought. But DEEP down, you are just as scared and worried as we all were when we first got herpes. You want your former life back. I did too. But you are here for a reason, if you didn't care you wouldn't have posted here at all. I am going to give you what you came for...... the answer to your dilemma is simply this: listen to your conscience and do the right thing.
Adrial was strong and brave. HE created his reality by having integrity and love for others. You can be the same, you don't need a website, you just need to stand up and be real.
I have asked @Adrial to chime in here. I think you need to know his story. .. he does have a girlfriend, and she is H - .. and having met Adriel myself, I can tell you that any woman could easily fall in love with him, simply because he is a beautiful soul who would never put somebody else's physical and emotional health below his comfort level of havinga potentially uncomfortable conversation with someone, whether it be disclosure about herpes, or anything else. He's a man of integrity, who is done the work to learn how to be vulnerable.
In fact, @Koolkat, I very strongly suggest that you try to see if you can make the next H Opportunity weekend. It would be a great place for you to explore explore this conversation. :)
One word. Integrity.
To me, my integrity is more important to me than anything else. I will accept a ton of shit from someone ... but if I find out you lied to me, my trust is broken and it will take a whole lot to get that back. Even a "small lie"... because I will wonder that if something "small" was too scary to tell me, what else are you hiding.
We've had women on here who have been in the situation where the guy said he didn't know ... and the woman found out that in fact he DID know (through various means) ... I can tell you that the emotional harm to them from that deception was FAR harder on them than the virus itself.
And again. Think. One day you will possibly have kids. You may have a daughter. How would you want a guy to treat her? I can tell you most men I know who have daughters would do a beat-down on any guy who KNOWINGLY passed herpes on to their daughter ...
Sure.... herpes itself isn't a "big deal" as far as diseases go to most people. Most don't have symptoms. Most who do get them under control within a reasonable time. A few struggle more and deal with ongoing post herpatic nerve pain and/or continual OB's ... but it won't kill us and it's mostly a nuisance. But the reality is that the EMOTIONAL toll that it has on people can be HUGE. I spend HOURS on here most days helping people to climb back up out of the deep pit of despair and depression that they have spun into after diagnosis. Many literally withdraw from their friends and life in general. Many go from outgoing to reclusive ... believing they are being "punished" for their previous sexual life. They suddenly see themselves as "dirty", sluts", "unlovable", "tainted", "gross". NONE of the people that take the diagnosis this hard were given the choice about taking the risk, and that plays heavily into their struggle. Many WOULD have taken the risk.....they really loved/cared for their giver ... even those in casual relationships ... but the feeling of betrayal on top of the diagnosis really screws with their psyche ... and they can take YEARS of therapy to get back to some semblance of their pre-diagnosis confidence....
We have given you our opinions here. I think it's pretty clear that our general stand is that it's the right thing to do to disclose, no matter what the circumstance. Just think very carefully before you go banging some girl who has no idea of your status .... what are YOU willing to live with if she gets Herpes from you??? Are you willing to be responsible for creating a situation where you get a call from a girl who is literally suicidal because of the stigma and the feelings of betrayal ... because that is a distinct possibility in your future. If you can live with yourself then we can't stop you. If you have so little regard for how your behavior may affect another's life in the long run, then you will do what you will do ... and *if* you are lucky, you won't pass it on. I just pray that you REALLY consider how your behavior and your need to avoid a conversation that may be uncomfortable (and result in you *possibly* not getting pussy) might affect someone else if this virus happens to find it's way into some future partner ... because you will have to live with that for the rest of your life ....
Peace out ....
I believe the updated PC term is 'don't be a pussy'.
Hate to quote Spider-Man, but with great power comes great responsibility. We have the power to affect a lot of people's lives in a bad way. I'm pissed because my chances were minimal, but a single player in the sex tree above me was acting selfishly keeping his mouth shut. He happened to be a model, but not much of a person. Is it so bad to make something worthwhile with one chosen person? It might push you to be more selective (even though you might expect to have to compromise). Anyway the way I see it: have a good/impressive personality with depth of character... then happen to be handsome as well. That's a temporary bonus in the grand scheme of things.
The reference to man up was in relation to maturity not masculinity, context means everything :) I actually believe that a true man is one who acts in a responsible and considerate manner and is willing to be vunerable. It has nothing to do with masculinity or stereotypes, it has to do with respect.
Well said dancer.
I felt like the bad feelings were overcome after a little bit of time. Is there a forum where people discuss reasons they do not disclose ? It would be interesting to hear that perspective.
God, I hope not.
Lol. Have you ever attended some meet-ups for single h people, fit girl?
Perhaps for you you worked through the bad feelings ... but for some, the struggle continues for many months if not years. Just because YOU have managed to come to terms with it doesn't mean someone else will ....AND, how can you justify not disclosing and taking on the full responsibility for their future sexual AND mental health ...
And no ... while I'm sure there's a forum *somewhere* where people who don't disclose share their conquest stories, it's not something that we would promote on here .... SMH
:) I haven't attended any of them....
I think Adrial has it made...become somewhat of a h public figure and boom what an easy discussion to have...some women might know your website already and you even have to have the discussion.
Adrial is a wonderful man with a strong sense of self and has done tremendous spiritual growth. He has devoted a significant amount of time and personal resources to helping people.
Any woman would be happy to be with him with or without this website and with or without this virus.
I hope your comment was tongue and cheek. Either way disclosure is uncomfortable and not a conversation I ever imagined having. If you work on yourself a woman can see that you are worth the risk whether casual or long term.
I wish you the best for all your future disclosures.
